A Talk on Ham Radio

A place to discuss all aspects of amateur radio operation.
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DX-Digger
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by DX-Digger »

Yeah lets give it all away make it free to come on Just like FM CB
What a crock!
I think you have been sucking too many Werthers matey.
What makes all the aspects of ham radio, educated hams who possess the technical ability to design and build equipment and to push the boundaries of propagation and weak signal working.
It was Radio hams who proved the existance of Sporadic-E propagation when the so called experts didnt believe it existed.
Our hobby has moved forward by hams designing and building digital nodes which then incorporate all modulation standards so DMR DSTAR NXDN etc etc.
Also by weak signal DSP processing breaking propagation boundaries.

All done by SELF TRAINING and LEARNING so that ham radio technology moves forward. be that on VLF LF HF VHF UHF SHF Lightwave.

You say 446MHz is popular and amazing, yeah but only because of illegal use of external antennas and higher power.

A Licence makes you accountable for your actions and the quality of your transmissions, in that you possess the knowledge so your 2nd or 3rd harmonics from your radio doesn't interfere with aircraft or other licenced radio users be that business or Emergency.
At the moment we have the flexibility to build, adapt, adjust and modify, take away the licence and you then have to have type approved equipment and no experimentation allowed.

If you have to study and earn a licence it then makes you appreciate it when you finally get one.
Put some effort in, then you respect the licence and adhere to its conditions.

If you have no licence then there is no respect for what you have and then thats when the loonies take over.
I also agree with other comments made in this thread, the foundation Ham exam should be made more technical.

How do you expect to communicate with your ham radio piers if you cannot converse on the same intelectual level.
You can only discuss the weather and your home made antenna for so long, then it becomes boring.

I personally think that is why there isnt many long chats with newly licenced operators because the first hint of a technical topic and its 73 catch you further down the log.

Its the same when a child comes onto CB nobody wants to talk to them because of their lack of understanding, so they get bored and start to mess about and key the mic etc, all this has happened in the past and will happen again if we give away access to unlicenced users.

There ya go all my opinion take it or leave it.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

DX-Digger wrote: 19 Aug 2021, 17:53 Yeah lets give it all away make it free to come on Just like FM CB
What a crock!
I think you have been sucking too many Werthers matey.
What makes all the aspects of ham radio, educated hams who possess the technical ability to design and build equipment and to push the boundaries of propagation and weak signal working.
It was Radio hams who proved the existance of Sporadic-E propagation when the so called experts didnt believe it existed.
Our hobby has moved forward by hams designing and building digital nodes which then incorporate all modulation standards so DMR DSTAR NXDN etc etc.
Also by weak signal DSP processing breaking propagation boundaries.

All done by SELF TRAINING and LEARNING so that ham radio technology moves forward. be that on VLF LF HF VHF UHF SHF Lightwave.

You say 446MHz is popular and amazing, yeah but only because of illegal use of external antennas and higher power.

A Licence makes you accountable for your actions and the quality of your transmissions, in that you possess the knowledge so your 2nd or 3rd harmonics from your radio doesn't interfere with aircraft or other licenced radio users be that business or Emergency.
At the moment we have the flexibility to build, adapt, adjust and modify, take away the licence and you then have to have type approved equipment and no experimentation allowed.

If you have to study and earn a licence it then makes you appreciate it when you finally get one.
Put some effort in, then you respect the licence and adhere to its conditions.

If you have no licence then there is no respect for what you have and then thats when the loonies take over.
I also agree with other comments made in this thread, the foundation Ham exam should be made more technical.

How do you expect to communicate with your ham radio piers if you cannot converse on the same intelectual level.
You can only discuss the weather and your home made antenna for so long, then it becomes boring.

I personally think that is why there isnt many long chats with newly licenced operators because the first hint of a technical topic and its 73 catch you further down the log.

Its the same when a child comes onto CB nobody wants to talk to them because of their lack of understanding, so they get bored and start to mess about and key the mic etc, all this has happened in the past and will happen again if we give away access to unlicenced users.

There ya go all my opinion take it or leave it.
First of all the VHF/UHF bands 6,4,2,70 are mostly dead and will get quieter. We need more people on those bands to keep them alive. If you make it harder well I cant see how that would help matters.

These days people buy a radio and antenna and that is it they don't bother with the science aspect of it anymore its all either HF or internet stuff like Zello and other internet rubbish thats the way ham radio is going now.

Foundation License holders... a lot of people assume that a foundation license holder is thick and not worth speaking to but not all foundation license holders are the same, many can be from different technical backgrounds and quite knowledgeable but there not given a chance because of narrow minded people.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by InTheClouds »

Ham radio should be licenced, it is not that difficult overall, if you think you cannot do the next level up.... just take your time with it over a few years, learn a bit of maths again, take time to understand the concepts.. and you don't even have to know them all.. you can fail quite a few questions and still demonstrate you know enough to operate responsibly at each level of the licence.

Some hams want a contact the shorter the better, some you may find out what kit they use, and the rare few want to talk about why they made or use what they use. I just go with the flow, no point pushing anything really, if tech chat goes well great if you already felt you over stayed your welcome beyond a signal report move on catch the next station.

Like anything a little complex it takes some time.

It is good there are licences and you feel like you achieved something as well. It is a hobby where you could cause interference or get a nasty zap or give someone a zap off your antenna, learn to install your kit well... so a bit of know how comes with the territory. The exams give you a footing to move forwards.

It is amateur radio.. some hams have degrees in electronics or engineering and some don't so we cannot expect every member of the public who becomes a ham to know everything or design a new antenna system, shape it how you want and have fun with the parts you enjoy and those you rub along with.

Enjoy speaking with those you like to chat with, do the parts of it you like, getting your knickers in a twist is a waste of time... most of us do not have the entire week to enjoy the radio so spend your time on what you do like when you get the chance.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

When there is activity on the upper bands mainly on 70cms repeaters I've had some good long QSO's. I do a lot of work with old PMR stuff. PMR transceivers are mainly what I enjoy using on the upper bands. My HF stuff I build from kits plus some homemade stuff and that is what I use for HF. I'm allowed to use up to 50 watts on my license but I've only ever used 35 watts at the most. Most of the time its a lot less. I do pretty well on 25 watts for simplex and for repeater use and use lower power than that depending on how far the repeater is. All my local 70cms repeaters I get into them fine on 5 watts loud and clear. Two meter repeaters I use a bit more as some of them are quite some distance and I need a bit more power to get into them. On HF the most I've ever used is 15 to 20 watts. I enjoy QRP operations on HF and I use homemade mag loops. I enjoy experimenting with antennas, mainly wire antennas for HF.

The upper bands are dying with not much activity at all. I seem to remember that saying use it or lose it. Look how dead 6 meters and 4 meters is. 2/70 is going the same way. A lot of the time there is nobody to talk to. I'd rather have some people to talk to rather than nobody at all. People say oh ofcom can take back the upper bands we don't care blah blah blah but when I mention why not make them license free people are like oh no you can't do that :?
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by DX-Digger »

First of all the VHF/UHF bands 6,4,2,70 are mostly dead and will get quieter. We need more people on those bands to keep them alive. If you make it harder well I cant see how that would help matters.

These days people buy a radio and antenna and that is it they don't bother with the science aspect of it anymore its all either HF or internet stuff like Zello and other internet rubbish thats the way ham radio is going now.

Foundation License holders... a lot of people assume that a foundation license holder is thick and not worth speaking to but not all foundation license holders are the same, many can be from different technical backgrounds and quite knowledgeable but there not given a chance because of narrow minded people.
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How do you know the bands are mostly dead? Just because you dont hear much where you are doesnt mean the bands are dead.
Go to high ground and you will hear a lot more stations. 2 metres is very busy around Staffordshre. so is 70CMs
6Mtrs is mainly a DX band very similar to HF. There are lots of people using 4MTRs all over the UK just because you dont hear them it doesnt mean theyre not there.

I never said foundation licence holders are thick, and I never said they were not worth speaking to, you said that, all I said is there will be a difference in understanding due technical knowledge, remember Ham radio is a Technical hobby it always has been.

And now you are suggesting we give it up for free and let anybody on the air.
Seems today the younger generation want everything for little or no effort, and when they get it, it gets taken for granted and abused.
And if that means I am narrow minded then so be it. I for one will not vote for opening up our radio allocation to everyone for no effort.
And being honest if you had put effort into getting your radio licence, where you had to study and try to understand the technicalities of the hobby, and pay for and take an exam you would not want to just throw it away to all comers for no effort.

Anyway Im done, if you want to give your hobby away so be it, but dont expect the majority of Hams to agree to do the same, you will find a large amount of opposition I guarantee that.
73 Mark
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by 26TM5890 »

100% agree with @paulears & @DX-Digger

Amateur Radio is a technical hobby and need license to operate to have a basic level of understanding or if wanted to go up the ladder (3 tier system in the UK) to gain more knowledge. Lots of technologies we use everyday are coming from HAMs due to innovation and building things, experimenting.

For unlicensed users there is CB and PMR

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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by paulears »

Nope, you cannot mix licenced and unlicensed in the same hobby. Increased permissions as your knowledge gets better is the only way for a self-policed international band. Access is limited in every country. If we go through a spell where people are too thick to pass, it’s better to not dilute the hobby, and just wait till more educated people come along.

Can you imagine allowing unqualified people to design bridges just because there’s a shortage of engineers? Making engineering simpler would kill people. In ham radio, nobody dies and it’s a hobby, not a career for most, but diluting a hobby to cope with people unable to put in the small effort to pass a VERY simple exam is a terrible idea. I sold a ham antenna, and had to make the cables up because the guy did not know how to put a plug on. He really did not deserve to be a radio ham.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

paulears wrote: 21 Aug 2021, 07:43 Nope, you cannot mix licenced and unlicensed in the same hobby. Increased permissions as your knowledge gets better is the only way for a self-policed international band. Access is limited in every country. If we go through a spell where people are too thick to pass, it’s better to not dilute the hobby, and just wait till more educated people come along.

Can you imagine allowing unqualified people to design bridges just because there’s a shortage of engineers? Making engineering simpler would kill people. In ham radio, nobody dies and it’s a hobby, not a career for most, but diluting a hobby to cope with people unable to put in the small effort to pass a VERY simple exam is a terrible idea. I sold a ham antenna, and had to make the cables up because the guy did not know how to put a plug on. He really did not deserve to be a radio ham.
I would agree if it wasn't so dead in my neck of the woods. I'm only just trying to see a way forward. It would seem that things are better up north side in many aspects not just ham radio. I know that the VHF/UHF bands are getting quieter and where I am the situation is pretty bad. I'd rather hear anything on the VHF/UHF bands rather than nothing at all. I have great respect for those few who have tried and called out CQ on 70.450 MHz 145.500 MHz 433.500 MHz.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

Sorry I quoted the wrong post there but lack of activity in this area is pretty desperate. I hear the bands are very active up north.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by DX-Digger »

When I first got licenced back in 1985. class B City & Guilds that was when my ham radio learning started.
No HF access back then VHF and UHF, no six metre band.
I actually started out with an FDKmulti750 FM 2m and a slim jim with rg58 coax.
And while I managed to work the local repeater, Simplex was very quiet. I later learned that the FDKmulti was known to be a very poor receiver, but being new to the hobby I didnt know that.
I was then advised to get a multimode radio, a beam, I got a 5 element to start with, as well as the vertical and use RG213 coax a mast head pre-amp and rotator.
It was quite an expensive venture but I was working so all was ok.
All I can say is WoW the difference in band ocupancy was amazing. I worked all over the UK and into europe with just 10W from my new
(2nd hand) radio a Trio TR9130 Multimode. I was working stations who were using FT290R qrp rigs into 7 ele yagis.
The Kent beacon on 144.430 was S5 but didnt take much to come up to S9. The same with the Angus beacon in Scotland.
And local FM Simplex activity was suddenly very busy, along with FM SSTV and RTTY.
I learned that a decent radio station with low loss coax etc was the way to make the bands come alive.
Again you get out what you put in.

A lot of newcomers get on the band with a Beofeng UV5R or some other Poor quality radio with a front end wider than the channel tunnel.
They are very easily desensed by out of band signals especially when attached to an external efficient antenna with a bit of gain fed with decent coax.
So they become disheartened and moan that the bands are dead. When in reality they just have a poor station setup for the VHF & UHF bands.
Again you get out what you put in.

Now Sadly from what you have posted elsewhere you have been told to remove your outside antennas, which really suxs by the way.
Your only option is Loft space antennas which will always be a compromise, but do work especially if a small yagi is used and a pre-amp at the antenna, or Get yourself some form of transport and go up to a local high spot and start calling CQ, I honestly think you will start to fill your log book,
if you do keep one.

One last thing MAKE SOME NOISE! get on the band and start calling CQ let other hams know you are there.

And no more talk of giving our bands away for no effort.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

DX-Digger wrote: 21 Aug 2021, 23:22 When I first got licenced back in 1985. class B City & Guilds that was when my ham radio learning started.
No HF access back then VHF and UHF, no six metre band.
I actually started out with an FDKmulti750 FM 2m and a slim jim with rg58 coax.
And while I managed to work the local repeater, Simplex was very quiet. I later learned that the FDKmulti was known to be a very poor receiver, but being new to the hobby I didnt know that.
I was then advised to get a multimode radio, a beam, I got a 5 element to start with, as well as the vertical and use RG213 coax a mast head pre-amp and rotator.
It was quite an expensive venture but I was working so all was ok.
All I can say is WoW the difference in band ocupancy was amazing. I worked all over the UK and into europe with just 10W from my new
(2nd hand) radio a Trio TR9130 Multimode. I was working stations who were using FT290R qrp rigs into 7 ele yagis.
The Kent beacon on 144.430 was S5 but didnt take much to come up to S9. The same with the Angus beacon in Scotland.
And local FM Simplex activity was suddenly very busy, along with FM SSTV and RTTY.
I learned that a decent radio station with low loss coax etc was the way to make the bands come alive.
Again you get out what you put in.

A lot of newcomers get on the band with a Beofeng UV5R or some other Poor quality radio with a front end wider than the channel tunnel.
They are very easily desensed by out of band signals especially when attached to an external efficient antenna with a bit of gain fed with decent coax.
So they become disheartened and moan that the bands are dead. When in reality they just have a poor station setup for the VHF & UHF bands.
Again you get out what you put in.

Now Sadly from what you have posted elsewhere you have been told to remove your outside antennas, which really suxs by the way.
Your only option is Loft space antennas which will always be a compromise, but do work especially if a small yagi is used and a pre-amp at the antenna, or Get yourself some form of transport and go up to a local high spot and start calling CQ, I honestly think you will start to fill your log book,
if you do keep one.

One last thing MAKE SOME NOISE! get on the band and start calling CQ let other hams know you are there.

And no more talk of giving our bands away for no effort.
Ahh the FDK Transceivers... I bought one on ebay for 17 pounds before I got my first license back in 2014 it picked up things ok on the 2 meter band. The band was a lot more active back then than it is now. I had my first contact with the ISS on the FDK 2 meter transceiver. I later found out that it wasn't a very good transceiver but it worked well for my needs at the time. It later developed faults and I couldn't be asked to repair it after getting a FDK 750 Multi mode SSB 2 meter transceiver from another ham at my local radio club.

I later started to get my hands on ex bussiness PMR transceivers. I was never into the latest amateur stuff at the time. I wanted to learn and build my own things and convert PMR transceivers to ham bands and to learn how they worked. That is what I enjoyed doing the most.

When I stared out I never touched a Boafeng UV5R instead I went for an old 2 meter FDK transceiver instead for 17 quid of ebay.

My first antenna was a Diamond X50 I found out they wasn't very good antennas although some may swear by them as being the best. I don't think they are. I started to build my own 2 meter and 70 cms antennas which worked pretty well. I was amazed with 2 meters that band fascinated me a lot and still does. Forget about HF. Anybody can make a contact anywhere around the world on HF. 2 meters is more challenging and so is 70cms and I love that but local activity has really died down since and is getting worse.

I started to make progress on 4 meters after investing in a decent antenna for 4 meters and I was blown away by how far I got on it after experimenting with other homemade 4 meter antennas mainly 1/2wave type dipole variations and them not proving to be very good. My 2 meter setup could outperform 4 meter distance with two meters on a homemade simple dipole it was only when I bought a proper high performance 4 meter antenna it really blew the socks of two meters, its just a sham that 4 meters wasn't as active as two meters. I had to wait for one of the 4 meter nets for days until I got to test it properly and that is when I was blown away by how far 4 meters can reach. I started believing those who told me not to bother with "four meter rubbish" but I knew something wasn't right, surly 2 meter distance can't out perform 4 meter distance? 70MHz should in theory go further but that wasn't the case for whatever reason until I got a better 4 meter antenna and oh boy did it get some distance in comparison with 2 meters.

I've always been into electronics and I can repair most things electrical. I've worked in many technical fields, electronics has always been an interest of mine.

Don't get me wrong HF is cool but experimenting with VHF/UHF is my main interest.

My next experiment involves a bit of HF to see if I can make contacts on the poorest 80 meter antenna like a wonder wand /loop or something like it.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by paulears »

No times have not changed - people just want everything now with minimal effort and my God it shows. Not just ham radio but almost everything. My own work field is the entertainments industry and for fifteen years I taught it too - and even developed the exams and assessment, and when I started in 94 it was tough to get through the auditions schools and colleges did for the 6th forms. They had maybe 100 applicants and took 20. Horrible doing auditions. Then bit by bit, as people saw the pop idol/X-Factor/Search for a star/ BGT more talentless people applied and talented folk moved to applying to a few specialist places, not the regional colleges. Bit by bit standards eroded and now people just want to be famous with no talent. Not just performers but musicians and technical people. You now have the crazy situation where a college graduate with a degree cannot do basic things without supervision and technical skills are appalling. Entry has been made easier, the content simplified and the quality of the people has gone down as a result. Sport, dance, engineering, sciences are all suffering. The 'people' demand easy access, help and support for people with difficulties and encouragement for people from socially difficult areas to get into the system, but they can't spell, read or comprehend the subject - but they still want their degree as a right!

Do we really want our operation or tooth repair to be done by somebody who got easy access and a light ride through university? We can argue that ham radio is a hobby - but it's technical hobby, and if somebody does not have the maths to work out Ohms law, or calculate what a 3rd harmonic is then maybe they should find an easier one? We even do it for driving! People who should never be on the road pass their theory test and then complain the practical is too hard and needs making more 'accessible' - as in easier, when the roads are hugely more busy than they were!

If you are fed up with CB, upset that to get better PMR446 you need to operate illegally, you turn to ham radio then demand it be made accessible to all. I thought you had a ham licence Werthers? Like all qualifications, once people have one, they are determined to stop less qualified people into the club. Nowadays, we sadly overturn historical precedent because people demand things. I was adopted at birth. My birth parents were told that their court records would be sealed for life, and nobody would ever see them. Adoptive parents were expected to tell their new children when old enough that these records were sealed and that was that. Finding your real parent was virtually impossible. Then - they just decide to allow kids to have the records opened. People who had had a child and told nobody suddenly faced with somebody knocking on their door, wrecking their life. Loads of women never ever told their later partners they'd even had a baby - can you imagine the things that could happen?

Exams and tests and vetting and police checks are the norm for some hobbies and jobs - these rules are there for a reason. It is NOT unfair to make a prospective amateur take a test before being allowed to transmit. We don't complain when amateur pilots have to take tests - we could argue that if they only want to fly over countryside and never people, we should allow them to do it. I just don't agree - sorry. The novice licence is a great simple access to the hobby - but if it is too hard for some people, then they were not the right people.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

We live in a smart phone world now which has changed things a lot. People relie to much on there phone and using apps. Personally I can't stand smart phones and only use one if I really have to. Radio has always been an interest of mine. I was never that big on CB. I did more SWL listening and other experiments with radio like going to a hill top with a D.A.B radio or analog one with some homemade antennas to see what distant radio stations I could pick up. Some people I know found it a bit odd but it was something that fascinated me and still does. Anybody who has an interest in radio shouldn't just give up and find another hobby because a hobby is something you stick with and not something you decide to do out of the blue. There is always plenty of room for learning and in this hobby there are always new things to learn and isn't a reason for somebody to give up and find another hobby. You keep at it and you progress. If you fail an exam you try again a bit like any exam or test. I have five hobbies that I've always had for years, Electronics, History, Metal Detecting, Astronomy and Amateur Radio. As I stated above I hold an intermediate amateur radio license. Many hams I know also have an interest in PMR446 because PMR446 is still radio. I'm not a plank who came from CB to ham radio :) . I was never really into CB much. I was introduced to amateur radio during my school days but I never did the exam until much later on.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by paulears »

That's what I thought - so I must admit you know quite a bit about radio and the rules, hence why I don't understand why you even think there is a chance of the UK going it alone on letting people onto a controlled band without the test? Not to worry.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

paulears wrote: 25 Aug 2021, 18:16 That's what I thought - so I must admit you know quite a bit about radio and the rules, hence why I don't understand why you even think there is a chance of the UK going it alone on letting people onto a controlled band without the test? Not to worry.
Well sadly many people have lost interest in VHF/UHF so I don't know what to suggest. I take my hat off to those few trying to promote more use of the VHF/UHF bands. I hear what your saying tho.
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