A Talk on Ham Radio

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Werthers
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A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

So I'd like to have a chat about Ham Radio and discuss topics about different bands but also the practically of different bands as many people don't have the same privileges as other Hams do.

So first off I'd like to discuss HF.

HF
I've heard a few people saying that DMR is a replacement for HF and in a way I'd say yes but I'd also say no. Firstly I don't think one Ham band can replace another Ham band plus DMR is not the same as HF sure you can talk to people from around the world on both modes, however those who are unable to operate on HF which usually comes down to limited space, antenna restrictions and isn't very practical for those people so in that sense I'd say DMR is the answer.

I find both DMR and HF very interesting bands, I also have antenna restrictions with limited space and sometimes you can make a indoor HF antenna and have a go at seeing what contacts you can make on HF, some can get away with it if they have a loft where they can put a HF antenna like a magnetic loop antenna or folded dipole or something. One thing I dislike about HF is the S9 noise also I find it hard to receive signals a lot of the time on HF. Having some HF portable equipment such as QRP radios can be enjoyable if you like the great outdoors which is perfect to put up a wire dipole HF antenna between two trees when your out camping or just out for the day.

I have made a hidden HF antenna which is a kinda dipole sorta thing but its only good as a receiving antenna so I can listen to HF if I want too.

6 Meters
Moving onto 6 meters... now some people like 6 meters everybody has there favorite bands, for me I don't use 6 meters and don't plan to either but that's not to say don't bother with 6 meters because its a good band for some but 6 meters isn't a band that really appeals to me.

The other thing about 6 meters is that there is limited equipment available such as single band radios that just have 6 meters. Most radios that have 6 meters are radios that also have HF and are rather pricey.

4 meters
Now 4 meters is a big favorite of mine, I love 4 Meters whether that be FM/AM or SSB. Its a very special band with very interesting characteristics. I have many 4 Meter converted radios including some handhelds as well. The band is somewhat under used but more and more people are becoming interested in 4 Meters, plus more countries are now getting the 4 Meter band. The 4 Meter band also has a nostalgic feel to it.

2 Meters
I also like 2 Meters because its very practical and you can still achieve a fair distance on 2 Meters. I do feel that 2 Meters is over looked. I heard people say don't bother with 2 Meters its short range and dead but it is not the case, ok 2 Meters isn't going to get you around the world, not from radio to radio anyway but nevertheless you can still reach a long way and when conditions are right you can make it into other countries. 2 meters is also a good band for talking to your local Ham friends when your having a beer or two :D or local club nets. The International Space Station can also be reached on 2 Meters when they are flying over your area and there is no better buzz than making contact with the ISS.

70cms
I like 70cms a lot its good for DMR and chatting to local people. Also the perfect band for handheld radios. Its also a band with the most repeaters. I do find that 70cms is over looked where not a lot of people use simplex analog. You can still make contacts on 70cms simplex whether that be analog or digital, personally I think some of the simplex 70cms frequencies could be better organized so that digital users aren't interfering with analog users using the same simplex frequencies.

3cms
I can't really say much about 3cms as I've not got any equipment to use the band yet other than a satellite dish for 3cms. Also I wanted to add this band to the list as its usually a forgotten band.

I know there's other bands but I wont list them all other than the main bands above.

What are your thoughts and opinions?
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by ch25 »

HF is my major activity. Hunting new DXCC's on bands. 328 DXCC so far.
6m - too rare propagation.
4m same.
2m/70cm/3cm - boring
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Tigersaw »

If I want to talk to people like the old CB days I use zello. If I want to play radio its 80m AM or SSB.
DMR seems like a mode invented by a committee, frankly overcomplicated and under performing.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

Tigersaw wrote: 27 Sep 2019, 00:21 If I want to talk to people like the old CB days I use zello. If I want to play radio its 80m AM or SSB.
DMR seems like a mode invented by a committee, frankly overcomplicated and under performing.
In a way DMR has been around for years in analog form like for example 2/70 used to have echo links etc on the analog repeaters which was the DMR of the old days. Some may say that Ham Radio is not about being practical but is more about challenges and experimentation which is true but digital and new technology is sorta taking over certain aspects of the radio hobby, things have moved on since the 20th century and the early days of radio. There is probably still those things on analog repeaters but I've not heard any echo links or internet gateways on 2/70 analog repeaters for sometime now that side of things have moved to DMR. Good old HF is the way to go for making world wide contacts without the aid any other help. HF will always be around but Ham radio itself is also moving with the times and things change over the centuries.

There's not a lot I like about the 21st century, I find the 21st century very dull. I live like I'm in the 1940s and my home is like a museum or a home that time forgot, I do make exceptions for a few modern things like my radios including DMR and computers etc.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Taylorsedan »

Hi all, I’m thinking to get a ham radio either a handheld or base station Option 1 is getting a base station all mode but are very costly, and I found out most base stations are HF. Do anyone know why? Option 2 is handheld radio like Yaesu. Maybe also get an amplifier to extend range. I’m a new ham so I’m not looking for advanced equipments, but the question is that is option 2 a popular choice ?
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by MrWeetabix »

HF

I use HF for DX contacts and the challenge of seeing how far I can send my signal. I include 11m in this category too. I find it fascinating to use WSPR and other weak prop data modes such as FT8/JS8call to see how far a low power signal can reach. I much prefer person-to-person contacts though. these HAMS with tens of thousands of contacts made by FT8 in automated mode, thats not for me. I only real person-to-person contacts

With all that said, I spend the majority of my time on JS8Call 11m at the moment, with a little bit of Voice work too. Had some great contacts down on 26mhz recently too, which was quite nostalgic and helped avoid the clusterf**k which 27mhz can be when the band is wide open.

DMR - Not my thing. Not really interested. I think the challenge of setting them up and making them work is interesting and enjoyable. but after that its the same old chats as on FM. What bowel condition old Mick has and what Derek's wife's made him for lunch. no ta, not for me.

I also dont like the idea of a system where a user or users can be blocked or denied access just because their face doesn't fit or they fell out with the keeper. I agree that problem users should be restricted, but keeping a closed loop to just your own little clique isn't in the nature of the hobby IMHO.

6M - , currently dont have an antenna up for this but the long wire tuned up on there the other week and I made a few EU Contacts on FT8, which surprised me. I have a 7-band-cobweb antenna waiting to go up, so hopefully do more work on this band when it does.

4M - Never worked this band. With the 7300 and the aforementioned 7-band-cobweb I hope to have a play this year. probably using data modes initially or SSB during activity events.

2M - Little bit of FT8 when I am bored. Bought a GP-9 High-gain vertical and I can open the repeater in Aberdeen in the North and down to as far as Harrogate to the south in-the-flat. Joined a group who are looking at 2m WSPR operations, but have yet to hear anyone on that mode on 2m. I have RX'd the ISS recently and did not lose it till it passed south east of Italy, so the line-of-sight potential of 2m is mighty impressive.

3CMs - Anything about 70cms is nose-bleeds for me. I may occasionally RX on 446 but thats the top of my Radio tree here. Sat Dishes and what not would make for interesting build projects, and the thrill of working stations on home-built kit is amazing, but again, beyond that build and experiment phase I imagine its the same old QSOs about the same old things.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Taylorsedan »

They are the budget model. Three other friends of mine and I got the Baofeng UV-5R after doing research, and here's a source www.whollyoutdoor.com where I checked reviews before ordering. However, the Baofeng BF-888s were great too, but we got some of the 888s for the team after reading some reviews for loaners and people who couldn't afford walkies of their own, they were noticeably poor quality, and range suffered greatly.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

My views on DMR have changed a bit since my last post. I'm not really into using repeaters on DMR I find it really hit and miss, to many talk groups plus the whole system is a mess. My only interest of the DMR side of things is Digital Simplex.

I am getting more interested in HF the noise on the band isn't always present. The mag loop I made eliminates a lot of the noise but living where I am with no garden and limited space a mag loop is pretty much the only way to have some kind of an HF setup. An indoor wire antenna in the attic was another option but it was to noisy up there and generally having an indoor HF antenna is a no go. RF feedback can be pretty nasty for the radio and RF bouncing of the walls getting into everything etc etc. The performance is generally crap anyway indoors or at least in my case it was. A compromise with another compromise within a compromise just boils down to zero performance. The mag loop can be put by an open window and is better than nothing. A couple bits of long wire can be wrapped around some non conductive extendable rods and shoved out of the window up into the air which also works. I do get some funny looks doing it tho and half the time I'd rather just use the mag loop. I don't want to draw to much unwanted attention to my home just for the sake of making some contacts on HF the mag loop is nice and discrete.

2/70 I'm a huge fan and always will be heavily into those bands. Not sure what to make of 4 meters but I experiment from time to time with 4 meters and 4 meter antennas.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by paulears »

I think a huge point has been missed here. There is no definition for what ham radio is. There are worldwide government agreements and rules for entry but from there on it’s a concept. What you like to do is probably possible if you get like minded people (and enough of them) any mode is feasible. It is nothing to do with anything other than matching the bands to the purpose. Some people enjoy designing the antennas and the modes we use, then testing them. Some people are at home with plumbing, which seems to be what you have to be good at to make stuff for the centimetric bands. Some have endless patience and want to see how far a few Watts can go. Maybe it’s CW or voice? Their choice. Others chase skip, following the band conditions. Some like digital modes and others hate them. The point is that amateur radio is either a hobby for the creative people or the reactive people. A home for those who want to learn the bare minimum of the physics, buy a cheap radio and talk to like minded people. Others have a lathe in the shed and make things. Others like to just listen. Others fire KW at the moon and receive amazingly faint transmissions from other like minded people. There are so many facets and so many modes that annoy or just disinterest people. I’m saying it is a unique hobby. To some it’s a hobby you can get into for less than fifty quid. Others see a five grand base station as a good investment. Others discover that what they learn as a ham gets them better jobs. A ham licence is still desirable for certain jobs. If you built and designed a preamp for 13cm some employers would find that a big plus for employment. Somebody skilled at picking out voices from weak noisy signals has a skill for some jobs. Just being able to think and talk at the same time is a useful skill. That is what ham radio us about. A hobby with benefits. Most hams have a quite unique home point in the hobby. I’ve been a ham for over forty years and still dabble, but I keep evolving. HF is of little interest, and DMR wore off pretty quickly, but I’m learning about repeater tuning at the moment. Next year? Who knows. My quest is to encourage people to learn new stuff and experiment till they find their home. We’re so different. I operate on ham bands, marine and aviation. There are idiots in every one of them. Less in aviation, lots in marine and of course some people who really should not be loose in the ham bands. I think this is normal. My view is that ham radio access is too cheap and too quick, so people burn out and have very poor understanding of the science. When I took my test, I thought it too hard, the old boys at the time looked down on me as a ‘new’ ham. This has never changed. Progress in modes and operation never goes down well. That’s life.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

Now days its a plug and play society and peoples idea of science itself is pretty out of whack from some of the things I come across on youtube videos like for example the lunacy theories about 5g etc etc let alone learning about real things. There are a few of us still about who experiment with radio. There is just not much fun otherwise. To many people get into the hobby buy an HF transceiver and a VHF/UHF transceiver buy there antenna and ATU and tune up a wire for HF and that is it. No experimentation. Its a can't be bothered attitude today with a lot of people.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

I think the best thing for amateur radio would be to scrap the license for some frequencies to get a bit more activity on some of the bands. Its not the 1980s anymore and times have moved on a long way since.

Some people have moaned about foundation license holders and how easy it is to get on the ham bands etc etc but its the foundation license holders that keep the hobby alive or for at least a bit longer. Without new blood the hobby would be almost history.

A lot of people talk about PMR446 and "how good it is"

It is fair to say that the radio hobby is dying VHF/UHF is almost dead in many parts of the UK but also in many parts of the world. HF on the other hand is booming... for now. HF will eventually go the same way as the upper bands.

Hows this for a suggestion...

Scrap the license for simplex operations for 4 meters, 2 meters and 70cms. "Simplex only" that way more people can use those bands and have fun like they do on PMR446. For those who want to use amateur repeaters or 6 meters or HF must hold an amateur license. I think that would be a positive step forward to keeping the upper bands going for a bit longer.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by paulears »

Sorry - but you cannot have amateur radio, on worldwide amateur bands WITHOUT a licence. Every country ratified the arrangements, and we cannot make our own rules, and to be honest. The point of a licence and a test is for gatekeeping - keeping people out until they have demonstrated a need to be in. Letting in totally non-technical people spoils the game for the others. Being frank - its not hard, and if somebody cannot be arsed to put some effort in, why would the people who did, want to speak to them? Ham radio still has the 'self-training in radio' in the remit. The idea is no different now to before, but ham radio is a hobby, and like every hobby, you get out what you put in. There is no need to make access easier - because it's stupidly easy already.

VHF and UHF are dying because so many people believe these bands are for exclusive use of hand held equipment - and it really is better than that. The people with SSB kit, horizontally polarised beams and rotators are very happy with the band, and distances worked are amazing, and they invest real money. Somebody else invests forty quid and gets bored because they cannot find anybody to talk to, but forget that the other people MUST want to talk to them. Quality of conversation is really important, otherwise it's a contest. Can you hear me? I can hear you. You can? great - thanks, bye!


How many really good conversations do you hear? Not that many, because so many of the conversations are so embarrassing. I hear people talking absolute rubbish. Technically in the gutter. They don't know the terminology, they have no science and spend ten minutes saying nothing at all.

I have an idea. Make the exam harder, to make sure people are capable and keen. Cut the number of hams down but increase the quality. That works for me.
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by LeakyFeeder »

No 23cm? We all forgotten about that band?!
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by paulears »

Noooooooo. That’s where the people who are interested in pushing real ham radio live. Leave them alone. Two and seventy are the place for all the annoying people, the bickering and silly stuff. Access to 23 and above is not by wallet and credit card, that’s why those folk are there, and we’re not!
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Re: A Talk on Ham Radio

Post by Werthers »

paulears wrote: 10 Aug 2021, 19:31 Sorry - but you cannot have amateur radio, on worldwide amateur bands WITHOUT a licence. Every country ratified the arrangements, and we cannot make our own rules, and to be honest. The point of a licence and a test is for gatekeeping - keeping people out until they have demonstrated a need to be in. Letting in totally non-technical people spoils the game for the others. Being frank - its not hard, and if somebody cannot be arsed to put some effort in, why would the people who did, want to speak to them? Ham radio still has the 'self-training in radio' in the remit. The idea is no different now to before, but ham radio is a hobby, and like every hobby, you get out what you put in. There is no need to make access easier - because it's stupidly easy already.

VHF and UHF are dying because so many people believe these bands are for exclusive use of hand held equipment - and it really is better than that. The people with SSB kit, horizontally polarised beams and rotators are very happy with the band, and distances worked are amazing, and they invest real money. Somebody else invests forty quid and gets bored because they cannot find anybody to talk to, but forget that the other people MUST want to talk to them. Quality of conversation is really important, otherwise it's a contest. Can you hear me? I can hear you. You can? great - thanks, bye!


How many really good conversations do you hear? Not that many, because so many of the conversations are so embarrassing. I hear people talking absolute rubbish. Technically in the gutter. They don't know the terminology, they have no science and spend ten minutes saying nothing at all.

I have an idea. Make the exam harder, to make sure people are capable and keen. Cut the number of hams down but increase the quality. That works for me.
That is why I suggested simplex only to be license free on the upper 3 bands 4,2,70 it isn't going to be worldwide but local. I know you can make contacts into neighboring countries on VHF/UHF when conditions are right or at high elevations but nobody really bothers to do so anymore on VHF/UHF and doesn't happen often.

Keep repeaters for licensed users only as those have gateways, echo links and Digital repeaters for worldwide contacts. Keep HF a licensed user only as those bands are worldwide.

If you make it harder for people to get onto the bands then nobody will bother because times have changed.
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