D023N/D0231

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D023N/D0231

Post by radiosification »

On my KST V6 radio, in the encode and decode options (What it actually means is ctcss and dcs) it shows the option to use D023N or D0231. Whats the difference between these? I've never known that there were two types of DCS if thats what they are.
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by StoatTB »

bben95 wrote:On my KST V6 radio, in the encode and decode options (What it actually means is ctcss and dcs) it shows the option to use D023N or D0231. Whats the difference between these? I've never known that there were two types of DCS if thats what they are.
I think you'll find that it's D023I. Basically the N is for normal and the I is for inverted. ;)
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by radiosification »

Ah right thanks. Whats inverted used for? I assume standard PMR446 equipment uses normal type so what the point in inverted?
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by lincs_radio »

Afternoon :)
Pretty much the same as 'buggerlugs' said...

DXXXN - means Positive code.
DXXXI - means Negative code.

Forgive me if im wrong, just guessing here...
If the digital code is inverted then the receiving radio will not recognise it therefore will not open its squelch.
I guess this gives you twice the number of DCS choices???
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by radiosification »

lincs_radio wrote:Afternoon :)
Forgive me if im wrong, just guessing here...
If the digital code is inverted then the receiving radio will not recognise it therefore will not open its squelch.
I guess this gives you twice the number of DCS choices???
It probably does yes, but what I was wondering is if anyone else actually uses inverted. Maybe hams do or something cos I've never seen a PMR446 with inverted DCS.
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by Spike »

bben95 wrote:
lincs_radio wrote:Afternoon :)
Forgive me if im wrong, just guessing here...
If the digital code is inverted then the receiving radio will not recognise it therefore will not open its squelch.
I guess this gives you twice the number of DCS choices???
It probably does yes, but what I was wondering is if anyone else actually uses inverted. Maybe hams do or something cos I've never seen a PMR446 with inverted DCS.
DCS codewords can become inverted due to numerous factors so you may have to 'invert' the code to open the squelch.

A slightly more technical explanation..
(Courtesy of a Yaesu manual)
The DCS system was first introduced in the commercial LMR (Land Mobile Radio) ser-vice, where it is now in widespread use. DCS is sometime referred to by its different proprietary names, such as DPL
(Digital Private Line, a registered trademark of Motorola, Inc.).DCS uses a codeword consisting of a 23-bit frame, transmitted (subaudible) at a data rate of 134.4 bps (bit/sec). Occasionally, signal inversion can result in the complement of a code to be sent or received. This prevents the receiver’s squelch from opening with DCS enabled, as the decoded bit sequence would not match that selected for operation.Typical situations that might cause inversion to occur are:

Connection of an external receiver preamplifier.
Operating through a repeater.
Connection of an external linear amplifier.

Note that code inversion does not mean that any of the above listed equipment is defective!In certain amplifier configurations, the output signal (phase) is inverted from the input.Small signal or power amplifiers having an odd number (1, 3, 5, etc.) of amplification stages may result in inversion of a transmitted or received DCS code.While under most circumstances this should not occur (amplifier designs and industry standards take this into account)
HTH
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by radiosification »

I see. Thanks. I don't really understand how an amplifier could invert it though. Anyone care to explain that? :D
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by StoatTB »

It's phase inversion caused by a single amplifier stage, if it goes through another single stage amplifier, this should correct the inversion. Basically, the positive and negative peaks of the signal are inverted by 180° in a single stage amplifier circuit. This is something that I've been learning about in the run up to my full Amateur Exam.

Perhaps a Google search will reveal more. ;)
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by Admiral »

buggerlugs wrote:It's phase inversion caused by a single amplifier stage, if it goes through another single stage amplifier, this should correct the inversion. Basically, the positive and negative peaks of the signal are inverted by 180° in a single stage amplifier circuit. This is something that I've been learning about in the run up to my full Amateur Exam.

Perhaps a Google search will reveal more. ;)
Jeez, I'm glad I took it when we only had to worry about anode voltages and control grids.
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by StoatTB »

butch wrote: Jeez, I'm glad I took it when we only had to worry about anode voltages and control grids.
:lol:

There's a tiny bit on valves, more a case of "doffing the cap" to the older stuff, as well as mentioning them for the linear amplifier usage, etc. I never really understood valves until I started to really read up on them, makes a lot of sense as in they are similar to FET transistors in some ways. Sorry OT. :oops:
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by radiosification »

Is there a more specific term for me to google please? I looked up radio phase inversion and found an article about extracting vocals. :?
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by M1bto »

I have forgotten most of what i learnt during my exam course,i only use a WT whilst out and about walking.
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by StoatTB »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_inversion
Phase inversion means the swapping of the two poles of an alternating current source. A phase inversion is neither a time shift nor a phase shift, but simply a swap of plus and minus.
Probably the most relevant part of that article when dealing with inversion.
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by radiosification »

buggerlugs wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_inversion
Phase inversion means the swapping of the two poles of an alternating current source. A phase inversion is neither a time shift nor a phase shift, but simply a swap of plus and minus.
Probably the most relevant part of that article when dealing with inversion.
ok great thanks
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Re: D023N/D0231

Post by BK »

lincs_radio wrote:Forgive me if im wrong, just guessing here...
If the digital code is inverted then the receiving radio will not recognise it therefore will not open its squelch.
I guess this gives you twice the number of DCS choices???
You don't exactly get twice the number of unique DCS codes as some codes are inverted versions of others. For example 413 is the same as 054 inverted. You'd only really want to invert a code to compensate if it was inadvertently inverted passing through an amplifier.
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