Can I run a temporary repeater?

[beltane]

And still not any actual clear answers to my question, just wild assumptions that I am some sort of ham radio criminal.

By accessing a private crossband repeat HT in a remote location using another perfectly legal radio I am not passing third party anything to anybody, so that means nothing in this context.

I am generally aware of what primary and secondary users are allowed to do, and if not I can refer to the band plan so that also is a pointless reference to my unanswered query.

The fact that OFCOM is ludicrously inept and their information is unfathomable and contradictory isn't my fault. I just sought clarification on an issue, and if there is none then I can only assume what I wish. I am not setting out to purposely destroy ham radio or be mean to small animals, I am asking about something that OFCOM apparently has no clarification about.

I am actually allowed to ask questions. That's how amateur radio people learn things.

[Ant]

Just a quick reminder to keep the thread civil or it will be locked

Hmmmm, quite...

……bunch of band lurkers butting in to chastise us for dabbling in Satan worship and "illegal" radio practice……….

…… old Band Police duffer …..

……who cares whether OFCOM thinks it's OK or not because they're a bunch of pathetic clowns anyway…….

……. many old gammons would wet their diapers and race to fire off angry letters in green ink to the proper authorities.

Yes, I see it's the usual blah blah blah from the assorted rabble of radio experts…..

[Transwarp]

And still not any actual clear answers to my question, just wild assumptions that I am some sort of ham radio criminal.

By accessing a private crossband repeat HT in a remote location using another perfectly legal radio I am not passing third party anything to anybody, so that means nothing in this context.

I am generally aware of what primary and secondary users are allowed to do, and if not I can refer to the band plan so that also is a pointless reference to my unanswered query.

The fact that OFCOM is ludicrously inept and their information is unfathomable and contradictory isn't my fault. I just sought clarification on an issue, and if there is none then I can only assume what I wish. I am not setting out to purposely destroy ham radio or be mean to small animals, I am asking about something that OFCOM apparently has no clarification about.

I am actually allowed to ask questions. That's how amateur radio people learn things.

Just try it out and see how it goes, it's all radio at the end of the day. If it doesn't work out or you get feedback from others that it might not be wise to continue then hang it up because it wouldn't be worth the hassle to you if it put your licence on the line would it?

Enjoy radio and dabbling with

[justron]

Would license free 446 not be the best way to go with something like this? Because as long as nothing totally stupid was done, getting ofcom to do anything would be virtually impossible, even if anyone complained. The original post said it was for local use & that it was only going to be temporary. So why mess about with amateur bands & all of those rules & opinions, when ofcom has given us something like 446.

[paulears]

Hang on, are we talking about non radio hams? I assumed you meant a ham band repeater. If you want to do it for the public, then it’s much simpler. You can take out a licence from OFCOM on one of the available bands and do what you want. Over the five years it’s quite cheap. There are duplex channels available in UHF and VHF That will work for anybody, not just hams. I’ve got a few repeaters in my hire stock and the insurance agent next door often borrows one with a few radios for a scout group. He does things like coastal walks, so parks his car with the repeater in it half way between start and finish, because end to end is unreliable, radio to radio. Perfectly legit, although he uses my hire licence rather than having his own.

[paulears]

I did a bit of research on OFCOM’s activities and read lots of their current documentation and I totally understand why things like Cb, ham radio, marine and PMR446 tend to get left alone unless they become trouble. So many things are happening with microwave bands, industry, science and mega clever stuff that most of their effort is now well away from our interest areas. The work involved with managing our little bands is tiny compared to what they’re doing elsewhere, and that also costs lots of money. Our little problems are simply insignificant, so they let us get on with it. They give the ham day to day stuff to the RSGB and do the same with the RYA in marine band. CB doesn’t have any real representation as it’s never been licence based, just loads of individuals same with PMR446 so they’re just left totally alone. I doubt OFCOM will ever have people or funding to ever pay any interest to hobby radio of any kind. Suggesting they’re not fit for purpose is completely wrong. Their current ‘purpose’ is just nothing to do with what we do, that’s all. They provide firefighting for emergencies and other than that, we’re on our own. Less restrictions than we’ve ever had, if we behave.

[Piggly]

Can you?
Yes.
Should you?
No, unless you are correctly licensed to provide this technical service.

However, you *could* just do whatever you feel like trying and see what happens…let us know the locations and frequencies and we’ll keep an ear out for you.

[beltane]

Ignoring the red faced anger-blobs and conspiracy theorists, the problem remains that there is no clear answer to my simple specific question, so therefore I am going to do as I wish whether the band police like it or not. They are no authority, and the actual authorities can't be bothered to figure it out.

The fact is that using a temporary low power HT in crossband repeat mode out in a remote location for the sole benefit of a small and private number of people, without any intent of it being public use, would hurt absolutely nothing. Nobody would even know it was happening. No kittens would die and no hospitals would suddenly have all their equipment shut down because of our horrific disregard for the safety of the world.

And if you want to know the details of where and when this travesty takes place all I can say is that we'll be doing it last Tuesday on a thousand watts from the following coordinates:

Latitude: 51.507741
Longitude: -0.127936

Now have fun.

[Piggly]

I’m not sure that the tone of your reply reflects that which my response was given in, so I shall expand a little on my answer.

OfCom, being the UK regulator for spectrum matters, make quite clear the situation: “ In the UK the use of any radio transmitting device is required to be either licensed or specifically exempted from licensing under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006 (WT Act 2006).” This means that unless you are licensed to operate this repeater then it is not permitted.
Using PMR446, for example presents another layer of difficulty since although the units are licence-exempt, the use of a repeater for these units is not since they do not fall within the technical requirements for that service in the UK.
You are correct that using a low power, short term deployment repeater likely won’t be spotted, at least not in time for an agent of the regulator to find it and act.
However, and this is an important point and one to bear in mind if you do decide to do this; bands are rarely allocated to a sole user, with much of UHF PMR being primarily allocated to the MoD…systems are in use that you wouldn’t necessarily spot if you have a listen before deploying.

I suppose what I am saying is, in essence “you could but don’t be surprised if unexpected outcomes occur.”

All that aside, if you operate it from the location you gave then you would definitely be spotted, precisely because there are systems operating that you would have no knowledge of.

Please take these comments in the manner in which they are intended; as friendly responses to your queries.

[Transwarp]

@beltane
Aye, just to echo what Piggly said regarding the core intention of replies regarding your original post, you've asked a question on the forum and there's a lot of knowledgeable helpful folk on here who all share a common 'bond' if you like and that's radio, some questions though are not straight forward to give an absolute answer on.

Having read over your follow up replies again I don't see a problem remaining as you say because quite simply mucking about on the airwaves in a way that 'potentially could' interfere with protected frequencies if unaware is no defence if you was to get your collar felt over such, it's that simple and that's the way it is. You may not agree with that but that's how it is. Others may do it, have done it, and continue to do it, and that's fair enough, so of course is up to you how you choose to proceed.

You're an M7 and I'm a long standing M3 and I've heard it all and been called it all - cornflake packet holder, licence sitter, fake radio amateur etc-etc, blah-blah-blah - sado people who need to get a life, but it doesn't bother me and never has because I know I'm a good operator who plays radio nicely, doesn't cause problems and runs a clean station, I get enjoyment out of it so that's all that matters.

Good / bad advice or correct / incorrect answers, it makes no difference because ultimately the choice and decision to do or not to do is down to you as the operator.

[M5AKA]

I've been researching this for a while now and I keep getting conflicting information. Specifically, could I make a temporary repeater out of something like a TYT-UV8000 that would only be used for a local or private event? I know this sort of thing gets done all the time officially, but the thing I'm specifically wanting to know is whether I can set up such a thing for the private use of me and my mates on a temporary basis without a bunch of band lurkers butting in to chastise us for dabbling in Satan worship and "illegal" radio practice.

A couple of years ago I was messing around with my TYT-UV8000 and another radio, crossbanding into a local repeater (just to see how things like this worked) and I immediately got some angry old Band Police duffer shouting at me that it was "illegal" for me to be doing so with my lowly M7-class license.

OK then, I've been trying to get my head around it ever since and basically most of the "official" information on the subject is, as usual, contrary and confusing. Basically my instinct is just do it anyway and who cares whether OFCOM thinks it's OK or not because they're a bunch of pathetic clowns anyway, but I would like to know the real deal out of curiosity.

From February operaing a repeater like that with Input frequencency in the 430 MHz band and Output in 144 MHz band will be permitted if you hold an Intermediate licence. Ofcom ask that any comments on their proposed licence are submitted by 5:00pm on 22 January 2024 so if any Foundation holders would like to see the proposed licence amended to permit them to do such operation (many dual-band rigs support a cross-band repeater function) they should let Ofcom know, email: [email protected]

[paulears]

Funny how the regs being updated to allow this kind of stuff gets no positive publicity.

The reality of course is that OFCOM have actually allowed crossband repeaters, unattended for years under the NoV rules. People applied with a specific requirement, and it was allowed. My own county council in the mid 90s funded crossband repeaters, cables and antennas that were attached to tall towers on council property in the north and south of the county. There had been a recent very big fire and they'd had ham operators from two radio clubs passing message about things like food, drink, rest times and non-emergency stuff for a few days, with cobbled together gear. The system worked so the council funded a two location system - omni in the two towns, with beams linking them together on UHF. NoV issued to me in the North and another ham in the southern town. We put it in, tested it once every few months, but never used it in anger. The letter from OFCOM just gave permission for operation supporting the County Council emergency Planning Officer - the phrase was "key controlled" - which mean a padlock on the radio rack both ends. At that time - all the local hams knew each other and there were no stroppy people likely to jump in and tell them off.

I'll repeat what I said earlier, you can do it legally, cheaply and not have to take ANY exam - just take out a simple licence for UHF or VHF and run your event. hand out a few radios and all done without breaking the law. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I do what the law says I must - even if I disagree. Like I never watch BBC or live tv, but I still buy a licence.