DMR Pirates

Use this section to discuss Digital Amateur Radio operations, such as D-Star and other digitally-encoded traffic
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Werthers
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DMR Pirates

Post by Werthers »

Has anybody noticed strange DMR I.D's pop up on your radio or people using other peoples DMR I.D's?

They say there are no pirates or keyers on DMR?
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by 26mb04 »

I haven't noticed personally, but you can use whatever DMR ID you want to. ID spoofing will always be an issue, but then you could equally just start saying someone else's callsign in regular voice too. The only way around it would be to enforce a one-time programmable IMEI-style ID which is burned into the firmware and cannot be changed. Then you'd need a centralised registry of those too.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by SgtBilko302 »

You can't use whatever ID you want on DMR. You have to register your callsign and an ID is assigned to you.
If someone else is using your ID, either you gave it to them or they've used you callsign to check online what your ID is. The other possibility is you've sold a DMR radio and forgot to reset it and left your ID and callsign on the software.

Paul.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by 26mb04 »

I've been using DMR id 1234 since last year. Granted, I can't use most repeaters, but simplex is fine.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by radiosification »

SgtBilko302 wrote: 27 Sep 2020, 16:31 You can't use whatever ID you want on DMR. You have to register your callsign and an ID is assigned to you.
If someone else is using your ID, either you gave it to them or they've used you callsign to check online what your ID is. The other possibility is you've sold a DMR radio and forgot to reset it and left your ID and callsign on the software.

Paul.
Technically you can use whatever ID you want. I could look up anyone's callsign, find their DMR ID and type it into my radio's programming software. There is nothing stopping me from doing that (except on brandmeister if they enable the callsign security feature). I believe this is what the person you replied to was trying to say - that you can use whichever ID you want to and there is nothing checking it.
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SgtBilko302
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by SgtBilko302 »

I don't use DMR but know the basics. I didn't know about the security feature on the BM system.
Like i said if the person knew you callsign and looked up online, they could pirate using your ID.

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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by Chris_M1BIK »

As previously pointed out in prev posts, there's nothing to stop any joker or lowlife from using someone else's ID or callsign on air simplex.

It's only when you use any route RoiP or through a repeater that's linked you need to use a legit ID, borrowed or legit issued to you.

There are a few test ID's that allow connection via connected routes, but that's frowned upon apparently even when just used to do legit hotspot setup tests and not further used until you get your own.

But the fact that borrowed ID's can be used reflects that from the outset nobody saw fit to consider that the level of managed reuse of the existing DMR ID method would be inadequate by default. So, from the outset and magnified by the fact that many sources of DMR kit don't do what radio outlets should do - only supply to verified or evidence presented proof of a valid PMR license or Ham license.

That would at least, using the existing RadioID DMR reg structure as it stands, keep out the not determined and casual unlicensed abusers a minority at worst.

However, it also shows another practical flaw in both how RadioID issued ID 'requirement' is presented and understood.

The only ID that's mandatory on UK Ham Radio transmission is your call sign and operation suffix, as defined in your license terms/schedule.

The RadioID additional issue ID requirement isn't currently legally mandatory for any DMR DV use, just it's not a mandatory requirement in law to have a registered D-STAR or C4FM/YSF ID.

They only serve as a indication that you are a registered ham operator, who has presented currently licensed status at the TIME of registration (so, like an MOT cert, it reflects a status at the time only). This being necessary to help comply with only allowing verified Ham operators to RF gateway link to other ham ops who pick up by RF or IP only - meeting the 'must communicate with licensed operators only' legal operating requirement. Beyond that, outside of linked operations, there's no enforceable requirement for a valid DMR ID.

So, realistically, your third-party registered ID should made part of the data held by OFCOM on your license profile and only checkable by licensees (if you provide the link means, you really should be a licensee in practice even if not running RF linked at your end).

Clearly an ESN/IMEI style unique hard device ID, logged against your callsign and RadioID or other for DSTAR/C4FM should be required, so the entered ID on your set plus it's hard ID would create a unique countersign that networks use to verifiy both valid use of valid equipment by current licencees.

After all, the IMEI and device barring control system works well in Cellular services - so similar logic would make perfect sense to licensed requirement status usage of LMR and ham usage of digital modes.

What we have, instead, is a trust based but usually effectively managed ID system governed by toothless tigers who actually have no legislated authority at all.

I'm all for the honour amongst gents trust we extend in ham radio, but when toothless tiger nobodies get to define your legit ID availability or status, something's gone seriously pear shaped with the whole thing.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by Werthers »

I didn't know about the security feature either. My understanding of DMR is currently basic. My opinion on DMR is that its a mess and very hit and miss. Sometimes unusable not because of the few pirates but unusable in general half the time. I'll wait it out until a better DMR system comes along. I am interested in DMR Simplex and will use that for the digital side of things. The digital repeater side has been awful for the past week. GB7NS GB7GP, GB7HH, GB7SE its all the same issues.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by Alan Pilot »

Just got into DMR in the last month.
Use a rasperry pi hotpot as i am too far from a repeater and get no problems at all with it that way.
Had a prat in Beirut playing music this morning but soon gave up or shut down from the bm server.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by Werthers »

Alan Pilot wrote: 23 Jul 2021, 19:54 Just got into DMR in the last month.
Use a rasperry pi hotpot as i am too far from a repeater and get no problems at all with it that way.
Had a prat in Beirut playing music this morning but soon gave up or shut down from the bm server.
That is one of the things I don't like about DMR but could happen on any mode or band and does. The DMR I.D anybody can put your DMR I.D into there radio and become you then abuse the network but happens anyway regardless of what mode or band. Thats why I ask about the security feature? I don't know anything about DMR hot spots I'm more of an analog person. DMR simplex I like but the rest of it I don't care to much for it.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by paulears »

I’ve been selling dmr for years to all sorts of people. I send them the code plug from one radio I have running in the office. I tell them to take out my local repeater and pop in theirs and replace my digital ID. Apparently I’m very active on DMR. Well, the real me isnt.

DMR is great for anything covert. Criminals could buy them use them in business bands where dmr is common and nobody would ever know.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by bigpimp347 »

DMR is easy to pirate.
GDPR means you can apply for a DMR id and no one can check if you'r real or not.
if you use a real DMR repeater you don't even need a DMR id, just use any number, 123, or 999 or 666 :evil: :twisted:
you only need a DMR id if you want to use the internet, but then why would you want to use a radio on the internet if you're a proper radio amateur ??
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by LeakyFeeder »

Both my uhf 380's have flashed firmware so i can pop whatever id i want with FPP..... its soooo easy😉
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by Werthers »

It wont be long now until the Boafeng muppets start getting there hands on DMR handy talkies as they become cheaper and more widely available but then again the average Boafeng muppet I expect wont know how to program one which is a small bonus. I think there really needs to be a better system in place for Amateur DMR because the I.D thing is a bit pointless.

I think ofcom should start issuing a ban on the sales of radio equipment unless a copy of the license is provided by the buyer with some proof that the callsign/license belongs to them. It wont totally be a solution to pirates but could cut down on the number of pirates.
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Re: DMR Pirates

Post by LeakyFeeder »

Ofcum are nxt to useless... to the point they are bordering on toothless... it took em hundreds of man hours to track down a retard in his bedroom messing about on marine band...
As for DMR id there are too many radios out there beyond any control n to ban their sale would be nigh on impossible.. lets face it the Genie is well n truly out of the bottle😉
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