The demise of 2 way radio

[liner trope]

The demise of 2 way radio

Another dealer called me yesterday "i have a source of radios for you, guy has 700 going cheap!" "He also has 2 radio sites with bases in situ, its a taxi and they are going on to phones". I thought for a moment and then said well thats pretty much sums up the 2 way industry right now. Lets break that down, lets says there are 10 big firms every year now going to phones thats 7000 radios a year leaving the industry, Accessory suppliers are not selling 7000 magmounts, 7000 microphones every few years, no installations, new firms starting up and using phones never even entertaininig radios you can see this starts to add up., you tell them radios are legal while driving and phones aren't and you get looked at funny, you tell them now the employer can also be done for there drivers use and that doesn't help, what we need is ignition on phone off law and not just £200 and 6 points thats not going to help, we need £1000 fine, what about cellphone jammers inside cars so you can not use your phone even if you wanted to.
I would say the clients that are going to hang on to radios are going to be the small firms say family run and not the big boys this is interesting because its also happening on the buses which have historically had 2 way radios in but yet insist that the driver uses the own personal mobile phone to call in with issues regardless of the fact they have a radio in the cab and they are possibly breaking the law the whole thing baffles me, the buses want gps so they can see where there bus is but if its running late they have to dig out the phone and look up the driver to find his number, then that driver is off that day and then its a ring round to find who is in the bus, many calls to many phones just to ask a simple question that could have been answered in 30 seconds and legally.
Then there are these pda dispatch systems i can't beleive for one minute that every time a cab driver needs to press a button on his pda or smartphone he is pulling over turning the engine off!
Moving on to DMR well the manufacturers have really dug there own grave there now they sell a repeater that replaces 2 so instead of buying 4 repeaters at £10000 i only have to part with £5000 fantastic oh and half the combining great now there out of business too, so there are more and more revenue streams diminished. Add to that the fact that these manufacturers (Hytera/Big M) are now providing something called an "app" which i beleive is a computer program that allows a phone to emulate a 2 way radio with ptt brilliant i dont even need to buy a radio now, so i only need one repeater not 2 and i dont even have to buy as many radios thats simply brilliant, top hole.
There has also been a negative impact due to a certain nationwide system that single handedley did more to damage to mobile side of the industry than any pda/phone has speaking to potential customers they say "Oh we had them radios years ago they were great then another firm took over and we got treated very poorly so no thanks" how do we deal with that.
Here is another thing in any other licensed industry it would be a requirement to have a license to sell the product yet ebay is full of chinese 2 way radios on unlicensed channels being pumped out for a few quid.
I don't really know where i am going with this but as an industry we need to work together have an understanding of how we collectively we can stop these 7000 radios a year going otherwise we all need to start looking for different work, last one out turn the lights off.

[VintageTin]

Blimey! Take a breath mate.

[thelad]

Would they not use the mobiles "hands free" and be legal.

[Admiral]

It's progress, you either move with the times or go under (ask Blockbuster), yes, voice two-way radios will soon be a thing of the past like CRT TVs, there will be RF gear in a vehicle to send telemetry though for a few years to come.

I trust you can see why more and more companies are going to cellular phones as a solution? Secure comms (no cowboys earwigging on a scanner and dashing to pick up your fare), and I'm just a humble domestic customer and I pay £31 for unlimited calls, unlimited texts and 1gb of data, I'm sure professional buyers for companies can get a much better deal when they are talking 100s of units.

So yes, I'm afraid hiring out chunky FM sets that work via a community repeater will soon go the way of hiring out VHS films.

ps Welcome to TM1

[MrWeetabix]

Two-way radio is dying.... not through anything other than technological progress.

I am sure that Penny Fathing Salesmen had similar issues back in the day....

From a Radio trading point of view, it's got to be a tough market. Having to deal with an ever-decreasing market and ever-increasing competition from mass-produced Chinese tat. It's sad, but that's life.

From a hobby point of view, we'll be all-but gone in 20 years time. Just a few old duffers, hoping that the Zombie Apoloclypse comes and our beloved Analogue radios become kings of comms once again.........

[paulears]

I don't understand why you joined a 2 way radio forum to tell us such obvious stuff. The radio market is changing - to be honest, it's done this regularly for as long as I've been using radios - and my first vehicle radios had valves in them. Taxis are an excellent example of right tool for the job. Now - with mobile data and GPS, there are better tools, but for other uses, 2 way radios are still the most appropriate. Fleet users have always bought the most appropriate tools and I think the removal of large area systems from many radio sites is inevitable. Doesn't make radio dead though, because for many - it's still new and useful.

Some of what you posted is total rubbish I am afraid. The bit about 2 for one DMR repeaters, for example. They are being sold as digital repeaters for extra facilities - clients who understand the technicalities and wish to save money may well buy one rather than two - but most clients do not want two in the first place. You're taking facts, and producing conclusions based on little substance. I have a number of clients asking about digital, and one of them just ordered more analogue because his system does what it is needed for. He wasn't swung by any of the gimmicks - digital offered nothing he could use. The biggest change we've got is that radio has never been so cheap, and the running costs so low. Using phones is more expensive for multiple units. Radio can be marketed for cost effectiveness.

700 radios suddenly becomes 7000 radios?? Based on what?

[bozzy]

Have to agree with others here, many moons ago I was a mobile service engineer in a Transit Van, we first had pagers, then a 2-way radio system, then moved onto Analogue mobile phones, then GSM phones.

That is the natural progression I am afraid to say, in current job (more office based now) we rely on mobile engineers that can even send pictures for fault diagnosis which a modern phone can do! Don't think a simple solution can be done with 2-way radio's in my industry that covers the whole of the UK.

Admiral has a good point there about CRT Televisions, As an electronics engineer, I originally wanted to work in that field, so glad I didn't go down that route as that field is dead with modern throw away reliable LCD gear.

Interesting first post though...!

[radiosification]

what about cellphone jammers inside cars so you can not use your phone even if you wanted to.

So every time a car drives past someone their call drops? So when you get into a car crash and need to call for help you can't? So the passengers are not able to entertain themselves by watching videos online during a long car journey? Great idea!

but as an industry we need to work together have an understanding of how we collectively we can stop these 7000 radios a year going otherwise we all need to start looking for different work

You want to stop people moving to a technology that is better and cheaper, just to protect an industry? Yes people will have to look for different work, that's just what happens when they have jobs that rely on a technology that's outdated. Retrain and go into the mobile phone business instead!

what we need is ignition on phone off law

Purely to protect the radio business? Other phone laws are to protect the public from being crashed into by distracted drivers. Probably the only reason they don't cover radios too is because the emergency services need to be able to use radios while driving. Once they switch to the new LTE system though I don't know what they will do. I guess the law will have to be changed.

What is the point in making protectionist laws to protect an outdated technology? Radios are being replaced by phones. That's just how it is and you should probably just accept it now because there's no way you're going to stop it from happening.

I pay £31 for unlimited calls, unlimited texts and 1gb of data, I'm sure professional buyers for companies can get a much better deal when they are talking 100s of units.

Shop around if your contract is up. I just got 6GB, more minutes than I'll ever use (I think it was something like 3000) and unlimited texts for £11 a month on virgin mobile - and they use the EE network too. The same one the emergency services will be using soon.

[welshevo]

well among this im still using my trusty string and 2 cups! seems to be working fine after all these years
no need for encryption keys, DMR TG ids nothing jsut string and cups! whollah! happy wednesday TM1

[bigbloke]

Britain doesn't experience major scale disasters regularly, therefore we have little concept of "contingency" and the implicit costs.

One of the big justifiers for Airwave expansion was 7/7

Now the blue lights are moving to EE - eggs in one basket - fatal play - but its what the .gov wants

Huge swathes of VHF are empty whereas UHF is rammed , but as the cellular boys move deeper in (wcdma enabled talkies out in china now -
and theyve been trying quietly for years - anyone else remember / work on the joke of a solution called GSM PRO by Ericsson?) what remains of business radio will be pushed lower and lower in frequency as the UHF bands are cleared for LTE / 5G deployment .

but for me ? i'll still have my radios and maybe a fixed repeater / mobile gateway by then (building those now)

Radios are truly effective where mobiles either don't reach, lack capacity, or are too slow in call setup

I always cite a family visit to the Eden project....

Sunny day - school holidays - place was RAMMED - mobile networks at capacity.

Restaurant area was full so family did a walk past to decide what they wanted, then circled around and grabbed a table, leaving me to order.

When I got to #2 in the queue (of about 40!) they ran out of beef lasagne
The bloke in front of me tried frantically to text / ring his wife to ask what she wanted - either couldnt get through or hit voicemail
hearing the change of menu I hit the PTT instead
"they've just run out of lasagne, only a veggie one left love"
"ok - what else do they have?"
"Beef pie or gammon"
"egg or pineapple on the gammon?"
"Pineapple"
"thats fine"
"ok"

I will never forget the look of sheer frustration on the blokes face in front of me, iphone in hand, slack jawed at the ease with which I got through

"who are you trying to get hold of ?" I asked him
"my wife" he replied pointing over to where my family were sat , "Blonde lady in the striped top"

I hit the PTT again

"Love, look behind you - 4 o'clock - see that lady in the stripey top ?"
"er...yes...why ?"
"tell her her husband has been trying to ring her, theyre out of beef lasagne, she needs to come over and make another choice"
"ok"

The lady behind me tapped me on the shoulder and said "Those are **** brilliant"
"yes indeed" I replied "short range - only a few miles - but licence free throughout most of europe"
"how much a minute?" she inquired
"free - its just set to set no network involved"

"Sold!" she exclaimed "where do I buy some ?" :-)

regards

BB

[RogerD]

Nice one BB

[RogerD]

Yes, it's almost dead around this way. There are more on-site systems than wide-area now, with low range.
Boats and planes are boring.
Amateur VHF/UHF is a wasteland because all the beginners are playing on HF - that was a massive mistake IMHO.

So, I have
* a dual-band handie broken and not worth repairing.
* an HF+6+2 boxed up gathering cobwebs, I'm not interested in the ionosphere and QSL card collecting.
* and a scanner that cost about 800 quid 20+ years ago that has been worth every penny but now sits by my bedside so I can listen to the BBC in the morning before I get up.

So that's why I've been a bit quiet of late

[Scott_93]

It's only part of the picture...

I'm pretty friendly with the local radio hire/dealer up here. They have only been set up a few years and first of all started out with Icom analogue radios. The first few years of business they put most of the profits back into the hire fleet, eventually selling off all their analogue radios and buying new Motorola digital kit.

Come event/festival time, they don't have enough radio's in the fleet (over 600) to cover demand and always end up buying more and more stock as cross-hiring isn't an option due to everyone else's fleet being out.

They also installed various wide-area systems on VHF/UHF some cap+, others just DMR, the coverage is tremendous and the net's full of users (hackney cabs, tippers, taxis, couriers).

On any event/stadia you'll find a heavy use of radio, the Taylor report expressly made a recommendation towards radio.

I work on events and can tell you that when we have to pass a message off the net using phones, it's a nightmare due to capacity being taken up, even whatsapp groups we have set up to pass non-urgent or written/media messages are a pain to work. These days we just point-point on our radios. No legal issues to worry about when driving either. Control room solutions available now are astonishing and all the features that DMR has brought just can't be carried over into mobiles as well.

It's defiantly not dead, just changed the way things are done.