Whitestick V DISCONE?

General scanning discussion forum. Talk about anything to do with scanners, equipment, VHF/UHF reception and the art of catching those illusive signals!
User avatar
gmham
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1490
Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 11:27

Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby gmham » 10 Aug 2017, 14:13

Guys got a vhf/uhf whitestick (x50 type) here that i am using for rx on my sdrplay sdr receiver. Thinking off replacing this antenna for one off the D1300 type DISCONE (discone with vertical section) be great to hear from anyone who has switched from a whitestick to a DISCONE for general vhf/uhf rx work to see if it's worth changing?
.... Icom IC7300 - Superstar 360FM / Maxcom 30E / Ameritron ALS-600X - Cushcraft r6000 / Carolina windom 80s / Heil ICM michrophone.

108-TM-154 - John


***********

User avatar
Admiral
Legend
Legend
Posts: 9499
Joined: 08 Mar 2011, 21:20
Call Sign: 26TM157
Location: MK-UK

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby Admiral » 10 Aug 2017, 15:51

It got done to death here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30356
Winner of the 2017 IBTL 'Summer Sizzler' competition, and holder of the TM1 IBTL Golden Willy Trophy.

User avatar
gmham
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1490
Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 11:27

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby gmham » 10 Aug 2017, 16:11

Sorry about that should really know to search first ! just read thru it all and happy to keep the whitestick and save a few quid in the bargain !!
thanks again for the link.
.... Icom IC7300 - Superstar 360FM / Maxcom 30E / Ameritron ALS-600X - Cushcraft r6000 / Carolina windom 80s / Heil ICM michrophone.

108-TM-154 - John


***********

paulears
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 566
Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 22:41
Call Sign: G4RMT
Location: North East Suffolk
Contact:

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby paulears » 10 Aug 2017, 16:58

If you look at the frequency response for your white stick - don't look at the gain peaks but look where the troughs are where it's a bit feeble. If anything you want to hear is in the troughs, then the discone is a must. That's it really.

User avatar
gmham
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1490
Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 11:27

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby gmham » 10 Aug 2017, 17:04

Okay cheers
.... Icom IC7300 - Superstar 360FM / Maxcom 30E / Ameritron ALS-600X - Cushcraft r6000 / Carolina windom 80s / Heil ICM michrophone.

108-TM-154 - John


***********

User avatar
thedeerhunter270
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1125
Joined: 13 Nov 2009, 18:47
Location: Consett County Durham

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby thedeerhunter270 » 10 Aug 2017, 17:17

paulears wrote:If you look at the frequency response for your white stick - don't look at the gain peaks but look where the troughs are where it's a bit feeble. If anything you want to hear is in the troughs, then the discone is a must. That's it really.
Caveat here - the radiation pattern of a discone varies from negative to high over its frequency range. So it will depend on what and where you want to listen.
Operating in South Northumberland and Weardale.

User avatar
gmham
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1490
Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 11:27

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby gmham » 10 Aug 2017, 17:22

Usual scanner freqs - 144 to 170 and around 446 to 453 mhz, bit off airband as well.
.... Icom IC7300 - Superstar 360FM / Maxcom 30E / Ameritron ALS-600X - Cushcraft r6000 / Carolina windom 80s / Heil ICM michrophone.

108-TM-154 - John


***********

User avatar
thedeerhunter270
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1125
Joined: 13 Nov 2009, 18:47
Location: Consett County Durham

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby thedeerhunter270 » 11 Aug 2017, 05:52

gmham wrote:Usual scanner freqs - 144 to 170 and around 446 to 453 mhz, bit off airband as well.
At those frequencies - I'd buy an X30 collinear.
Operating in South Northumberland and Weardale.

User avatar
gmham
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1490
Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 11:27

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby gmham » 11 Aug 2017, 17:05

Ok cheers as I say got an x50 or clone here , take it the x30 is pretty much the same ?
.... Icom IC7300 - Superstar 360FM / Maxcom 30E / Ameritron ALS-600X - Cushcraft r6000 / Carolina windom 80s / Heil ICM michrophone.

108-TM-154 - John


***********

User avatar
thedeerhunter270
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1125
Joined: 13 Nov 2009, 18:47
Location: Consett County Durham

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby thedeerhunter270 » 11 Aug 2017, 17:35

gmham wrote:Ok cheers as I say got an x50 or clone here , take it the x30 is pretty much the same ?
Almost, but the x30 has less gain - the x50 will have a flatter radiation pattern.
Operating in South Northumberland and Weardale.

paulears
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 566
Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 22:41
Call Sign: G4RMT
Location: North East Suffolk
Contact:

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby paulears » 13 Aug 2017, 21:11

Adding in airband is exactly what I described - a band the X30/50 type antennas don't do that well.

I'm very confused by what thedearhunter says about polar pattern. The E plane response of the white stick antennas is distorted by multiple lobes that mean the angle of signal arrival is critical to any gain, or more often, lack of it. An aircraft, for instance could grow weaker as it gets closer, as the arrival angle takes that direction into a null. Discones are much more predictable, with the lobes being much more gentle and no nasty sharp peaks to confuse things. The huge spread of band used by the military is a good example of why they use discones, or the dual conical types - predictable performance.

The common white sticks are centred on amateur bands or the VHF/UHF commercial bands where they provide useful gain - but at civil and military airband, they're pretty well a bit of random metal in the sky, performance wise - and trying to follow an aircraft as they change channels can be frustrating when the strong signal you are hearing switches to a new frequency and simply vanishes!

User avatar
gmham
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1490
Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 11:27

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby gmham » 13 Aug 2017, 22:09

Okay cheers for the info, to be honest the rx on the white stick is actually very good, even on airband I am hearing Glasgow and prestwick airports a good 50/ 60 miles from here so suppose can't ask for better than that. have the white stick in the house just now but do plan to get it outside up high and in the clear and replace the rg58 with some more suited to these freqs !!
.... Icom IC7300 - Superstar 360FM / Maxcom 30E / Ameritron ALS-600X - Cushcraft r6000 / Carolina windom 80s / Heil ICM michrophone.

108-TM-154 - John


***********

paulears
Radio Addict
Radio Addict
Posts: 566
Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 22:41
Call Sign: G4RMT
Location: North East Suffolk
Contact:

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby paulears » 14 Aug 2017, 06:53

That's extremely good - don't change a thing! I'm pretty high here, near the top of a hill, and Norwich airport tower is just audible on an X30 (ham band version). An airband dipole 10ft lower can't hear it at all - so your range is brilliant. The thing with gainier antennas is that they're designed with gain in normally two places, harmonically linked, which helps the performance in those places, but they rarely give the gain comparison in the other places - and very often they are by design not very effective there. I can't find it now, but there was some discussion years ago, that if you plotted an antenna system's gain in every plane, and every frequency, then the result would exactly the same for every one. Any gain in one direction being matched by equal loss somewhere else. I think it was an old Jaybeam document from memory, but since the takeover, it's gone.

User avatar
Admiral
Legend
Legend
Posts: 9499
Joined: 08 Mar 2011, 21:20
Call Sign: 26TM157
Location: MK-UK

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby Admiral » 14 Aug 2017, 09:55

Paul is clearly very knowledgeable on the principles of antennas, I am not, so my theory is that if you find something that works for you then don't mess with it if it ain't broken. So if a scruffy wire dipole on the end of a broom handle held on with cable ties and cost nothing works as well or better than a £100 off the shelf antenna then stick with the broom handle.

I had a discone up for about 30 years before it finally succumbed to old age and fell to bits, it had a whip on the top that worked 2m better than any monopole I had tried over the years.
Winner of the 2017 IBTL 'Summer Sizzler' competition, and holder of the TM1 IBTL Golden Willy Trophy.

User avatar
thedeerhunter270
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 1125
Joined: 13 Nov 2009, 18:47
Location: Consett County Durham

Re: Whitestick V DISCONE?

Postby thedeerhunter270 » 14 Aug 2017, 19:11

paulears wrote:I'm very confused by what thedearhunter says about polar pattern. - Discones are much more predictable, with the lobes being much more gentle and no nasty sharp peaks to confuse things. The huge spread of band used by the military is a good example of why they use discones, or the dual conical types - predictable performance.
It is my understanding that Discone's don't have a uniform radiation pattern. And that it changes depending on frequency. I can't remember where I read that, so I have no way of referencing it.

Although - just had a look about and found this: http://www.ijlret.com/Papers/Vol-1-issue-3/6-A059.pdf Not sure if it really clears it up though.

Maybe this: http://www.benelec.com.au/base_station/02675.htm
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Operating in South Northumberland and Weardale.


Return to “Scanning Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests