[Split...] Narrow/Wide Deviation

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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by BK » 02 Jan 2010, 23:51

Scott_93 wrote:most people still use 25Khz steps
I'm surprised by this. As far as I remember, for at least 10 years the bandplan has said 12.5kHz channels for 2m and if you bought a new ham rig it would come with 12.5kHz channels as default on 2m. With the switchover of repeaters to 12.5kHz channels completed at about the same time I'm surprised anyone still uses 25kHz channels on 2m.

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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by StoatTB » 03 Jan 2010, 00:04

BK wrote:I'm surprised by this. As far as I remember, for at least 10 years the bandplan has said 12.5kHz channels for 2m and if you bought a new ham rig it would come with 12.5kHz channels as default on 2m. With the switchover of repeaters to 12.5kHz channels completed at about the same time I'm surprised anyone still uses 25kHz channels on 2m.
This maybe due to the heavy usage or the lack thereof, depending where you live. This part of Scotland has some 2 metre usage, but for the most part the band is under-used. In Glasgow, I'm sure it's much busier.

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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by Yeti » 03 Jan 2010, 00:48

BK wrote:
Scott_93 wrote:most people still use 25Khz steps
I'm surprised by this. As far as I remember, for at least 10 years the bandplan has said 12.5kHz channels for 2m and if you bought a new ham rig it would come with 12.5kHz channels as default on 2m. With the switchover of repeaters to 12.5kHz channels completed at about the same time I'm surprised anyone still uses 25kHz channels on 2m.
The switchover of repeaters is NOT completed by a long shot - only 2 of the 2m repeaters around here are on 12.5kHz spacing.
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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by YB135 » 03 Jan 2010, 07:49

BK wrote:
Scott_93 wrote:most people still use 25Khz steps
I'm surprised by this. As far as I remember, for at least 10 years the bandplan has said 12.5kHz channels for 2m and if you bought a new ham rig it would come with 12.5kHz channels as default on 2m. With the switchover of repeaters to 12.5kHz channels completed at about the same time I'm surprised anyone still uses 25kHz channels on 2m.
Seconded, I for one use narrow on 2m fm. We have quite a bit of activity round here and yes, there are still some dinosaurs who call it s20, s21 etc and when they say go up one they mean up two.... Anyway. Bandplan says 12.5 so thats what we should all use. Or else whats the point in having a band plan?

On busy evenings up here there can be large parts of the 2m band being used, if everyone took the attitude that they will use wide just coz they can, then there would be problems!

When I bought my last 2m rig on my first qso someone broke in and politly asked me to switch to narrow as I was bleeding over to their qso 12.5 down. I should have checked before I started using the radio.

Maybe I should just be a bit more of a rebel? Or am I right?
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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by BK » 03 Jan 2010, 12:11

Yeti wrote:The switchover of repeaters is NOT completed by a long shot - only 2 of the 2m repeaters around here are on 12.5kHz spacing.
I could have sworn there was a deadline for switchover about 10 years ago.

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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by Yeti » 03 Jan 2010, 18:18

BK wrote:
Yeti wrote:The switchover of repeaters is NOT completed by a long shot - only 2 of the 2m repeaters around here are on 12.5kHz spacing.
I could have sworn there was a deadline for switchover about 10 years ago.
Well GB3PA and GB3CS are still on wide (thankfully). As are several others up here.

GB3AY only went to narrow a few months ago.
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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by BK » 03 Jan 2010, 19:58

Yeti wrote:Well GB3PA and GB3CS are still on wide (thankfully). As are several others up here.
Why thankfully, are there lots of people still using old 25kHz equipment up there? To take an example, the GB3SD website says the repeater "complies with the 12.5KHz specification now adopted as a standard for all 2m repeaters in the UK", so those who have converted seem to think everyone has :D

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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by Yeti » 03 Jan 2010, 21:21

BK wrote:
Yeti wrote:Well GB3PA and GB3CS are still on wide (thankfully). As are several others up here.
Why thankfully, are there lots of people still using old 25kHz equipment up there? To take an example, the GB3SD website says the repeater "complies with the 12.5KHz specification now adopted as a standard for all 2m repeaters in the UK", so those who have converted seem to think everyone has :D
yes, lots of folk still on 25kHz spacing. Sounds far better as well.
Will the next movie in the series be The Fast and The Funeral?

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Re: Puxing or Intek ?

Post by ElusiveStranger » 04 Jan 2010, 21:39

ok as interesting as this subject is , i fear we have strayed into a different area and may need to split this discussion into two threads ,sorry guys don't like to interrupt trains of thought but we seem to have left the original subject . :)

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Re: [Split...] Narrow/Wide Deviation

Post by Sparkgap » 07 Sep 2018, 18:20

Was looking around for articles on FT8900 wide/narrow deviation and came across this. Might be blowing in the wind trying to dredge up a thread as old as this but have just finished reprogramming my 8900. Due to QRM issues between my local repeater and another one 50 miles & 12.5khz away I've saved several repeaters in the memories on narrow. This also works on the right vfo in memory mode. One way of getting around it perhaps?

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Re: [Split...] Narrow/Wide Deviation

Post by rpcomms » 02 Nov 2018, 00:33

Just pick this one up,maybe old?

Dont get confused with channel steps 12.5/25khz and wide\narrow deviation\filter bandwidth & FM discriminator audio level shift,lot of hams gets confused by this!
the audio on RX is also switched in the FM discriminator to allow shift in volume level so constant in better radios or commercial ones
some radio mfr only switch the TX side only,and not the RX stages- Yaesu are famous for this on some models

just because something running on a 12.5khz channel ie 145.5125mhz
does not mean its actually running Narrow_FM (2.50khz\11khz bandwidth filters),you can and I have come across this kit running 5khz dev \16khz bandwidth=FM-Wide on a 12.5khz channel step.
This happened with the new Yaesu C4FM System Fusion repeaters on early firmware,repeaters were on 12.5khz freq's but were running FM-Wide 5.0khz deviation!
It was only when i brought it to attention to repeater group that they had not the correct firmware,did they address the issues.
My guess was it was USA firmware and European spec support was not included in early version for FM-Narrow on 2m

The Yaesu FT-8800 will do both wide/Narrow deviation and bandwidth\Rx audio on both VFO

The Ft-8900 will only do ONE VFO wide\narrow proper and on VFO 2 FM-wide only,turning the dev down wont fix the RX issue unless you go inside set and start changing filter,FM discriminator 455khz resonator (audio level)resistor,most wont.
10m band is fixed in firmware to FM-N only for Europe.

The TYT TH-9800 does both sides VFO wide/Narrow TX & RX+audio level switched
in all bands

Ive owned and used these sets the FT-8900 i programmed all my narrow fm so use LH-Side VFO
but then switched to the TYT TH-9800 as was more flexible in Wide/Narrow FM
FM-wide (5khz dev) or often called in USA still Marrow FM is mainly used on 2m VHF\UHF

I just wish repeater keepers would actually specify on the websites to make it crystal clear what FM system they are running
as terminology can sometimes get misconstrued by users or sometime special requirements to run FM-N in some cases in the 70cm band not FM-Wide as most are.

The 2m band has in my eyes been badly handled from the start and pushed through in the 12,5khz and wide/narrow FM business and seen the results of confused radio users with old and new kit getting them selves all mixed up or dont fully understand it!

Personally they should have been left the 2m VHF band plan alone, to keep compatibility with old and new radios.
12.5khz spacing frequencies using FM-Narrow on 2m repeater frequencies ONLY ,leave all the 25khs steps stuff in FM-Wide and be done with it,thing is 2m repeaters on FM nowadays are either gone or just plain quite now,so did we really need 12.5khz spacing in the first place on 2m on FM?
prob not and audio does sound better on FM-wide(thats why marine band uses it)
local VHF station still use FM wide on 2m band,just the odd repeater users run FM-Narrow,but most now have switched to DMR and System Confusion digital stuff now.

Rob 73's

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